Looks like it's just us for now. I was going to catch us up on Law Day's donations, and since you're here, and I had hoped that when the general meeting started, you could give us an overview of how the event went.
[09:43] Lyra Snowpaw: sure ok
[09:43] Lyra Snowpaw: Hi see Hott has been back to visit the sim after the event
[09:43] Lyra Snowpaw: *hoot
[09:44] Lyra Snowpaw: so that's a positive if a few more get involved each time
[09:45] Agenda Faromet: He has, yes. We had a nice chat, and I encouraged him to come to today's meeting.
[09:45] Agenda Faromet: Also, I don't know if you remember Rezzie Luckstone, who came to last month's meeting, but she's interested in running for the exec board. She can't make it to today's meeting because she's out of town.
[09:46] Lyra Snowpaw: oh well I think if she wants on it then she is on it lol, I didn't even know I was on it until Sam told me
[09:47] Agenda Faromet: Our current total of Law Day donations is L$1795. I believe that will rise by a little bit once Lexis logs on -- Rezzie's items were donation items, and the proceeds all went straight to SLBAAdministrator.
[09:48] Lyra Snowpaw: oh that's great
[09:48] Agenda Faromet: It's good to have some income!
[09:49] Lyra Snowpaw: isn't this dues season? June?
[09:50] Worship Christ NOT People: Hello all
[09:51] Lyra Snowpaw: hi baeric
[09:51] Agenda Faromet: Hi, Baeric! Welcome. And I /think/ dues are due in August. They always were in the past.
[09:51] Worship Christ NOT People: August? not July?
[09:52] Agenda Faromet: Isn't it August? I'd need Lex to tell me. I thought it was August to August, just like our terms. Maybe the bylaws say.
[09:52] Worship Christ NOT People: mmm I cannot remember
[09:53] Worship Christ NOT People: August is better
[09:53] Worship Christ NOT People: :)
[09:53] Agenda Faromet: Haha, better for me too.
[09:53] Worship Christ NOT People: L$500 is I remember
[09:53] Agenda Faromet: That's correct.
[09:53] Worship Christ NOT People: :)
[09:54] Worship Christ NOT People: in the box downstairs
[09:54] Lyra Snowpaw: 500L?
[09:54] Lyra Snowpaw: that's not much
[09:54] Lyra Snowpaw: I thought it was 5000
[09:54] Worship Christ NOT People: always been 500
[09:55] Lyra Snowpaw: I think 5000 is a more appropriate number
[09:55] Worship Christ NOT People: You will find people not joining
[09:55] Lyra Snowpaw: yes but we already have that problem
[09:56] Lyra Snowpaw: so I don't think keeing the dues low will solve the issue
[09:56] Lyra Snowpaw: *keeping
[09:56] Worship Christ NOT People: No disrespect but make it L$5000 and I wont be paying it
[09:56] Agenda Faromet: Yes. We're the only group I've ever encountered in SL that not only charges $500, but keeps charging it annually. It's hard to keep members that way.
[09:56] Agenda Faromet: And L$5000 is not low. That's a month's rent on a good sim.
[09:57] Lyra Snowpaw: well but we clearly need to raise it if we can't get more members
[09:57] Lyra Snowpaw: perhaps not to 5000
[09:57] Agenda Faromet: ....We need to /raise/ it if we can't get more members?
[09:58] Agenda Faromet: That's not exactly how supply and demand work, though.
[09:58] Agenda Faromet: Morning, Rykk. Welcome!
[09:58] Lyra Snowpaw: Hi Rykk
[09:58] The Freak Magnet: Heyas
[09:58] Worship Christ NOT People: Hi Rykk
[09:58] Lyra Snowpaw: However this isn't a capitalist enterprise--it's a professional organization
[09:59] Lyra Snowpaw: and we all know it's an expensive profession
[09:59] Agenda Faromet: It works under the same theories. Ask the few who remain to shoulder the burden, and they'll /leave/.
[10:00] Agenda Faromet: Oh, Juris is here! I see her on my minimap.
[10:00] Lyra Snowpaw: Well who shoulders it now? Does the association break even? Or perhaps they are expecting to break even once renewal season starts
[10:01] Lyra Snowpaw: As I recall the last few reports from Lexis showed we had a substantial deficit
[10:01] Juris Amat: Glad to be back!!
[10:01] Agenda Faromet: I'm really hoping Lex will attend, so we can ask about his efforts to reach out to former SLBA members and encourage them to sign back up. I've heard from a few former SLBA members who had just forgotten to renew, and then got dropped from the group and didn't know why they weren't getting notices from us anymore.
[10:02] Lyra Snowpaw: Hi Juris!
[10:02] Worship Christ NOT People: hi Junis
[10:02] Juris Amat: Hi Agenda :) Thats a great idea
[10:04] Juris Amat: Hi Lyra. Hi Worship
[10:04] Agenda Faromet: We also don't currently have an easy way for people to join the group. There's no group joiner here on Justitia -- you have to search for it and join that way. Do we want a group joiner here? Lex / SLBAAdministrator would have to put it out, so I hesitate to mention it without him here, because the group payments have to go to him.
[10:05] Elizabeth: Thank you.. Hello everyone
[10:05] Worship Christ NOT People: Hello Elizabeth
[10:05] Agenda Faromet: Oh. It's after 10, I guess I should bring the meeting to order and whatnot. Hi! Welcome to our June meeting. We don't have a quorum, so this'll be informal. I'm leading things because Sam's out of town. I expect chaos will reign at least a little.
[10:05] Lyra Snowpaw: Hi Elizabeth
[10:06] Elizabeth: Hi!
[10:06] The Freak Magnet: Chaos is the natural order of the Universe
[10:06] ElizabethElizabeth laughs
[10:06] Agenda FarometAgenda Faromet grins.
[10:06] Elizabeth: No worries.. smiles. It's all good.
[10:07] Elizabeth: May I say something before we get started formally?
[10:07] Agenda Faromet: First on the agenda (no pun intended) is Law Day. Our Law Day event was quite a success (Hi Soro!), and I'd like to let Lyra tell us all about it. Sure, Elizabeth, go ahead.
[10:07] Lyra Snowpaw: Hi Soro
[10:07] Worship Christ NOT People: Hi Soro
[10:07] Soro Dagostino: Hello all.
[10:07] Worship Christ NOT People: Hey Legal
[10:07] Juris Amat: Hi Soro
[10:07] Agenda Faromet: Hi, Legal and Hoot! Welcome.
[10:08] Lyra Snowpaw: Hi Legal
[10:08] Lyra Snowpaw: Hi Hoot
[10:08] Elizabeth: I just wanted to publickly thank you and Lyra for all the time and effort you put into making law day possible. I (and my alter ego Chris) thought you both did a fantastic job. Both of your panel discussions were wonderful.
[10:08] Elizabeth: publicly*
[10:08] Legal Writer: Hi, all
[10:08] Elizabeth: You deserve a round of applause.
[10:08] Elizabeth: Hello!
[10:08] The Freak MagnetThe Freak Magnet APPLAUDS!!!
[10:08] Worship Christ NOT People: applause
[10:08] ElizabethElizabeth smiles and applauds.
[10:09] Lyra Snowpaw: lol I didn't realize that was you Elizabeth : )
[10:09] ElizabethElizabeth blushes.. giggles
[10:09] Elizabeth: Yup.. tis me.
[10:09] Agenda Faromet: Aw, thank you. It was a great event, and I really appreciate everyone who came and looked around, especially you guys who went to the panels, which were awesome.
[10:09] Lyra Snowpaw: ahh well done, was a greeat performance
[10:09] Juris Amat: claps and grins
[10:09] ElizabethElizabeth blushes.. thanks!
[10:09] Agenda Faromet: (Everybody: Elizabeth /sang/ for us. She rocked the HOUSE.)
[10:10] Elizabeth: Awww. .thank you.
[10:10] Agenda Faromet: Lyra, would you like to recap the event?
[10:10] Lyra Snowpaw: Sure, the Law Day theme this year was No Courts, No Justice, No Freedom
[10:11] Lyra Snowpaw: so we decided to do a couple of things to highlight the theme
[10:11] Lyra Snowpaw: Agenda did an amazing presentation on IP issues in a virtual world
[10:11] Soro Dagostino: afk for a sec, RL.
[10:11] Lyra Snowpaw: Which was well attended and there was a lot of lively discussion about the issue
[10:12] Lyra Snowpaw: We also had an exhibition located in various parts of the sim highlighting court cases from around the world showing the role of courts as protectors of human and other basic rights
[10:13] Lyra Snowpaw: and we also had an informal discussion about that issue follwing Agenda's fine presentation
[10:13] Lyra Snowpaw: and to close our event Elizabeth gave an amazing performance
[10:13] Elizabeth: And Lyra did a lovely presentation of those court cases as well, leading the discussion.
[10:14] Lyra Snowpaw: So for a first event, I'd say it went well--especially for a discussion-type in SL
[10:14] Soro Dagostino: bk
[10:14] Agenda Faromet: We raised L$1795 from the vendor market and donation jars, plus some donations that went directly to SLBAAdministrator Clarity, so we might have raised over L$2000 all told. Also, I've had a lot of interest from content creators about giving my presentation again, because some people couldn't make it and wanted to hear it, so I'm trying to schedule another time to present.
[10:15] Lyra Snowpaw: oh great idea Agenda
[10:15] Elizabeth: That's wonderful!
[10:15] Agenda Faromet: One of the benefits from having been really anal and written the whole thing down!
[10:16] Elizabeth: If anyone didn't have the opportunity to attend and Agenda does it again in the future, you really should try to be there. It was an extremely helpful and educational presentation.
[10:16] Lyra Snowpaw: It was very well done and you deserve credit for your hard work
[10:17] Agenda Faromet: But as Lyra said, it was a very successful event for our first major SLBA event. Lyra and Elizabeth were /amazing/, and we had a great time. I hope you all had a chance to attend the vendor market, at least.
[10:18] Legal Writer: What would you like to do for your next event like that?
[10:21] Elizabeth: In dealing with plans and programs, one of the things I was hoping we could do, would be to plan programs and discussions/presentations, on topics everyone was interested in, hence the notecard that was sent out several weeks ago. Unfortunately, I have not received a single notecard back with any response whatsoever, making it hard to plan things that people are interested in.
[10:21] Agenda Faromet: That's a very good question. Lyra suggested the Law Day event. Maybe we could try to put something together in time to coincide with the ABA annual meeting in Chicago if there's a group meeting that would like to attend virtually, but I don't know if that would work. Alternately, one thing that might be really fun is to wait until the fall and then hold a panel on the upcoming Supreme Court session.
[10:21] Elizabeth: That would be really interesting.
[10:21] Agenda Faromet: I'm sorry I haven't responded, Elizabeth. I've been up to my ears with Law Day.
[10:22] Legal Writer: Just so you know, in 2009, we had a joint event between the ABA Annual Meeting program of the ABA Section of Science & Technology Law and the SLBA.
[10:22] Elizabeth: No worries! I totally understand thsat.
[10:22] Agenda Faromet: I remember that, Legal. I would love to do something like that again.
[10:22] Hoot N Any: hold a panel on the upcoming Supreme Court session. Thjat may or not be good for ones health
[10:22] Elizabeth: That's great. I wonder if we can do that again?
[10:22] Legal Writer: There were some people in the room with me, and we could have people here too.
[10:22] Soro Dagostino: lol
[10:22] Elizabeth: I would love that. What a great idea.
[10:23] Soro Dagostino: Legal? Does that include corporations?
[10:23] Juris Amat: Hi Legal. It was the IP section ;) and it was awesome a mixed reality event.
[10:23] Legal Writer: Speaking of the ABA, part of the reason why I am here today is to help maintain ties between the Section and the SLBA.
[10:24] ElizabethElizabeth nods.
[10:24] Legal Writer: Juris, there was a party with the IP Law Section's meeting, which the Section of Science & Technology Law co-sponsored. But there was another meeting of the Section and the SLBA at the ABA Annual Meeting.
[10:24] Agenda Faromet: I'd be interested in /both/ a collaborative meeting with the ABA and SLBA /and/ a panel on the upcoming Supreme Court session in the fall. At my law school, we used to have a panel like that every year, and it was always standing room only.
[10:25] Elizabeth: Mine too Agenda.
[10:25] Legal Writer: I also know that the in-coming Chair of the ABA Section of Science & Technology Law is looking for additional leaders for the Virtual Worlds and Multiuser Online Game Committee.
[10:25] Agenda Faromet: ...Really?
[10:25] Legal Writer: So part of the reason I am here today is to see if anyone is interested in helping out.
[10:25] Agenda FarometAgenda Faromet raises a hand.
[10:26] Elizabeth: I would love to be involved in something like that.
[10:26] Legal Writer: Great!
[10:26] Juris Amat: I'm also interested
[10:26] The Freak Magnet: Where better to ask than in a virtual world
[10:27] The Freak Magnet: May have to join that section
[10:27] Legal Writer: So my thought is if folks who are interested can write to me at email@example.com, I can pass along names to the current leadership and see what kind of opportunities are available.
[10:29] Legal Writer: The Chair-Elect of the Section, Lucy Thomson, takes office in August.
[10:30] Legal Writer: Lucy is in the process of firming up leadership for committees, for the term starting in August.
[10:30] Agenda Faromet: Cool. Thank you, Legal. Will you hang out a little after the meeting for people who have questions? I need to move things along to the nominations for office, just for time's sake.
[10:30] Legal Writer: ok, sure
[10:30] Legal Writer: Let's take the discussion off-line.
[10:30] Agenda Faromet: Thank you so much! Okay! Our next order of business is the big one: nominees for next year's offices. First: president. Sam Courtois is not here today, but he has asked me to nominate him for President. So: I nominate Sam Courtois for President-For-Life. I mean, President.
[10:31] Soro Dagostino: :)
[10:31] Agenda Faromet: I'll sucker him into President-For-Life eventually.
[10:31] Soro Dagostino: Second, Sam's a sucker for punishment.
[10:31] Agenda FarometAgenda Faromet laughs.
[10:32] Agenda Faromet: I have not yet heard from Lex or Yoss, so at the moment I assume those positions are open. Would anyone else like to self-nominate here?
[10:33] Worship Christ NOT People: :)
[10:33] Elizabeth: Second!
[10:33] Elizabeth: Third!
[10:33] Elizabeth: lol
[10:33] Soro Dagostino: Yoss sent me an e-mail about today. I assmed he would be running.
[10:34] Elizabeth: What positions are they in?
[10:34] Soro Dagostino: I nominate Yass.
[10:34] Soro Dagostino: yoss*
[10:34] Lyra Snowpaw: Second
[10:34] Agenda Faromet: Lex has been our treasurer for many years, and Yoss is our secretary.
[10:34] Lyra Snowpaw: I nominate Lex for Treasurer
[10:34] Juris Amat: This is a nomination for all positions? I'll self nominate for the board.
[10:34] Soro Dagostino: Second.
[10:34] Agenda Faromet: I wholeheartedly second Juris's nomination.
[10:35] Juris Amat: Thanks all ;D
[10:35] ElizabethElizabeth smiles
[10:35] Agenda Faromet: I have one other proxy nomination to give. Some of you have met Rezzie Luckstone -- she's been to some of our meetings. Rezzie was also a vendor at our Law Day event, and donated her proceeds to SLBA. She would like to self-nominate for the exec. board, but she is out of town today.
[10:36] Elizabeth: Position?
[10:36] Soro Dagostino: So move the nomination -- Exec. Board.
[10:36] Agenda Faromet: Exec.board.
[10:36] Agenda Faromet: Oh, right. So I nominate her for exec. buard.
[10:36] Agenda Faromet: Board, even.
[10:36] Elizabeth: Second.
[10:37] Agenda Faromet: Oh, also, and I nominate myself for exec. board. Because I wouldn't know what else to do with myself on Saturday mornings.
[10:37] Elizabeth: Second!
[10:37] Lyra Snowpaw: Second
[10:37] Soro Dagostino: Second
[10:37] ElizabethElizabeth laughs
[10:37] Agenda Faromet: Anyone else?
[10:37] Lyra Snowpaw: I will also self-nominate for the Exec Board
[10:38] Juris Amat: right! too much free time. lol
[10:38] ElizabethElizabeth second
[10:38] Agenda Faromet: I third Lyra.
[10:38] Lyra Snowpaw: lol
[10:38] Elizabeth: I would like to self-nominate as well.
[10:39] Agenda Faromet: Second!
[10:39] Lyra Snowpaw: Second
[10:40] Agenda Faromet: Well, that was easy. Okay! I believe we'll all need to go to the web page and formally post our self-nomination posts there, but Yoss will need to set it up for this year first, so I'll email him and make sure that happens, and then send out reminders to everybody to go vote.
[10:41] Elizabeth: When does the voting begin?
[10:41] Agenda Faromet: (Which will probably consist of 'Yes, let's have a president,' since we only have one nominee at the moment.)
[10:41] ElizabethElizabeth smiles.
[10:41] Worship Christ NOT People: ty
[10:42] Lyra Snowpaw: I like this new streamlined system
[10:42] Elizabeth: Me too! Much easier!
[10:42] Agenda Faromet: Voting will begin...let's say July 1? That's a little arbitrary, but it gives people time to get their nominations up.
[10:42] Elizabeth: Good!
[10:43] Agenda Faromet: It's not going to have to be all fancy. We're all friends here. If any actual voting needs to be done, we can get it done easily enough.
[10:43] Elizabeth: Sounds good!
[10:44] Agenda Faromet: That was fast! So that's all my business. Anyone else have business they want to discuss? If not, we can let Legal have the floor again.
[10:44] Elizabeth: May I for a moment?
[10:44] Agenda Faromet: Sure!
[10:45] Elizabeth: If anyone did not receive the NC with regard to ideas or desires for CLE/Programs/etc., would you please let me know, and I will gladly provide you with another. I am really hoping to set up some programs that we would all benefit from.
[10:46] Soro DagostinoSoro Dagostino raises hand.
[10:46] Agenda Faromet: (Do it or I will throw things at you.)
[10:46] Lyra Snowpaw: May I have another Elizabeth? My inventory is a mess sorry
[10:46] Worship Christ NOT PeopleWorship Christ NOT People raises hand too
[10:46] Elizabeth: Sure!
[10:47] Agenda Faromet: Elizabeth, if you send it to me, I can send it to the whole group in notices.
[10:47] Worship Christ NOT People: thank you
[10:47] Elizabeth: Thank you! I would appreciate that.
[10:47] Soro DagostinoSoro Dagostino raises hand again
[10:47] Soro Dagostino: Not for the survey . . . :)
[10:47] Soro Dagostino: To comment.
[10:47] ElizabethElizabeth laughs. No worries.
[10:48] Agenda Faromet: There you go. Go ahead, Soro.
[10:48] Soro Dagostino: Some of you know I am active in the democratic sims known as CDS.
[10:49] Soro Dagostino: Several members of SLBA are also.
[10:49] Agenda Faromet: Yes. Kaseido used to do that too.
[10:49] Soro Dagostino: There is a raging debate going on about the "judicial process" in the society.
[10:50] Soro Dagostino: It would be good to have you folk give a presentation to the locals.
[10:50] Elizabeth: What type of presentation would be desired?
[10:51] Soro Dagostino: The concept may not call for a full court system, but a modified version of something to resolve disputes between citizens.
[10:51] Agenda Faromet: That's a great idea.
[10:51] Worship Christ NOT People: along the ADR idea?
[10:52] Lyra Snowpaw: how do they handle it now?
[10:52] Soro Dagostino: Some of us gave time to the SL group that tried to do that on a SL wide basis --
[10:52] Elizabeth: You mean on SL?
[10:52] Juris Amat: Which was that?
[10:52] Elizabeth: Yes, the Metaverse Republic.
[10:52] Juris Amat: right
[10:52] Juris Amat: it didnt get that far though
[10:53] Elizabeth: The committee I was part of worked on that very hard for over a year.
[10:53] Worship Christ NOT People: Ashcroft's idea?
[10:53] Soro Dagostino: Peoples Court
[10:53] SLBA Seating: Single:1
[10:53] Elizabeth: Ashcroft was part of it, yes.
[10:54] Worship Christ NOT People: People's court only works if every one subscribes to it
[10:54] Elizabeth: Exactly.
[10:55] Agenda Faromet: Right. And that's the problem. If it has no teeth, it's just Cops & Robbers.
[10:55] Worship Christ NOT People: A chap tried it and it has failed as the owners of groups where people wanted help refused to accept it
[10:55] Soro Dagostino: I'd like to see if the electorate in CDS would buy into such a system.
[10:55] Worship Christ NOT People: what can one do to give it teeth?
[10:55] Legal Writer: It's almost like you need to have people click through an agreement with an arbitration clause in it.
[10:56] Elizabeth: You have to figure out how to do so first. Because in a place like SL, I think we all know that it's easy for people to say one thing and then IM and do something else.
[10:56] Legal Writer: As a condition of joining a group or being a resident of x area.
[10:56] Soro Dagostino: CDS operates a little differently that EO estates.
[10:56] Elizabeth: There's virtually no consequence.
[10:56] Lacuna Arado: land owner covenants could reference an agreed legal standard. residents would then agree to it as a term of leasing property
[10:56] Lyra Snowpaw: now that has teeth
[10:56] Elizabeth: When you lease, you usually do that in the agreement to rent - like, no ban-lines, no weapons, etc.
[10:56] Worship Christ NOT People: and how would that be enforced?
[10:57] Soro Dagostino: What I think is necessary is an operating system -- people can see in operation.
[10:57] Lacuna Arado: for residents it could be but non non-residents of the land
[10:57] Elizabeth: I'm not sure you would be able to enforce it even here.
[10:57] Lacuna Arado: however, if enough sims adopted the standard, and the standard was reciprocal, it could have teeth eventually
[10:57] Worship Christ NOT People: the lack of enforecability means no teeth
[10:57] Soro Dagostino: The only thing we can do in CDS is ban people.
[10:57] Elizabeth: No one has to do anything because they can leave and go elsewhere.
[10:58] Elizabeth: And, as we learned, they can cite the TOS and not have to oblige.
[10:58] Worship Christ NOT People: yes indeed
[10:58] Worship Christ NOT People: and it seems that to some extent TOS does not apply to privaste sims
[10:58] Worship Christ NOT People: private*
[10:58] Lyra Snowpaw: well that's true it seems the Lindens kind of prefer the virtual wild west
[10:59] The Freak Magnet: Most people I know come into virtual worlds to free them from the constraints of the real world. When I had my own sim, I delighted in being able to just shoot idiots.
[10:59] Agenda Faromet: What would be really great is if we could craft an in-world ADR process in tandem with LL. I wonder what that would take.
[10:59] The Freak Magnet: Plenty of reality in RL if you like that sort of beige.....
[10:59] Legal Writer: LL would have to agree
[10:59] Worship Christ NOT People: LL to endorse it
[10:59] Worship Christ NOT People: snap
[10:59] Elizabeth: We tried that with MR.
[10:59] Worship Christ NOT People: and
[11:00] Worship Christ NOT People: they wont
[11:00] Elizabeth: It wasn't something they wanted to do for a number of reasons.
[11:00] Lacuna Arado: or take it off SL. OSGrid, or something like that
[11:00] The Freak Magnet: Making it too much like RL would be a turnoff.
[11:00] Elizabeth: But again, how do you enforce it? and, as Rykk says, for most on SL, that's the whole point of being here.
[11:01] Agenda Faromet: Well, yes, obviously. But LL fights a lot of battles, and if they had a dispute resolution process available...yeah.
[11:01] Legal Writer: They can build in ADR to the TOS
[11:01] Legal Writer: We can't control their TOS
[11:01] Juris Amat: like the udrp...
[11:01] Elizabeth: I agree, that's why we tried to do it, but at the end of the day, they have their rules and TOS and don't want to give over that right to others.
[11:01] Agenda Faromet: I'm not really thinking about things like regular user bitching. I'm thinking about things that would otherwise actually go to the courts.
[11:02] Agenda Faromet: Copyright fights, trademark disputes, contract breaches...
[11:02] Lacuna Arado: everyone comes to virtual worlds with different perspecitves and goals so enforcement would have to be based on voluntary consent and perhaps enforceable under certain circumstances like group membership or land ownership.
[11:02] Lyra Snowpaw: LL almost can't control it's own TOS
[11:02] Legal Writer: I think the problem is money -- the amount at issue in a dispute. If the parties only have $2500L at issue, there's no point in RL litigation (to enforce SL ADR) even if you had a good SL ADR system.
[11:03] Worship Christ NOT People: Agreed Lyra
[11:03] Elizabeth: But at the end of the day, it's theirs to decide how to handle as they see fit, whether we agree or not. Additionally, most parties don't end up doing it because of the cost involved.
[11:03] Worship Christ NOT People: yes costs are always a deterrent
[11:03] Elizabeth: I couldn't agree more or I wouldn't have gotten so involved in it, but in the end, it failed because we don't have to be here if we don't want to be. :-(
[11:04] Legal Writer: If you had big dollar disputes, you could fiture out a way to bind people to arbitration, have a nice arb system here, and then enforce in RL via procedures to confirm arbitration awards and enforce judments.
[11:04] Soro Dagostino: Well, folk, I didn't mean to start a battle. There is an opportunity to create something -- if the electorate in CDS will support the process. And it is a major agenda item before our rule making body, the RA.
[11:04] Legal Writer: *figure
[11:04] Elizabeth: How many people on that sim?
[11:04] Lacuna Arado: so which jurisdiction? where the server lives? where the parties reside in RL?
[11:04] Elizabeth: You have to look to the TOS for that.
[11:04] Soro Dagostino: 70 to 80 in the 5 sims.
[11:05] Agenda Faromet: On the other hand, there are a lot of people who make their RL livings in SL, and some of these disputes can cost them their livelihoods. ADR in real life can be as expensive as litigation, and can crush a small businessperson.
[11:05] Elizabeth: Likely CA.
[11:05] Legal Writer: Arbitration clauses can specify location of dispute. You could do it online.
[11:05] Lacuna Arado: or VA
[11:05] Legal Writer: The ADR
[11:05] Elizabeth: Getting back to Soro, what type of presentation would be desired?
[11:05] Legal Writer: I was thinking you could have a simple ADR system, where people submit evidence electronically, and then make submissions on the papers and then have a decision.
[11:06] Hoot N Any: The US likes those clauses,Europeans not so much. In some countries they even can be illegal
[11:06] Soro Dagostino: We actually have a hearing.
[11:06] Soro Dagostino: In situ.,
[11:06] Juris Amat: AAA has an online adr program; LR uses it.
[11:06] ElizabethElizabeth nods. You're right Hoot. That was one of the difficulties of designing a Constitution in MR. Creating clauses that worked internationally.
[11:07] Legal Writer: You could talk to the International Chamber of Commerce.
[11:07] Agenda Faromet: They /were/ a big problem in the US until last year, Hoot. Now they're just...well...they're still a big problem.
[11:07] Agenda Faromet: Just for different reasons.
[11:08] Elizabeth: Alright, so aside from creating a legal system. I guess the question is, in terms of giving a presentation, what would the topic be?
[11:08] Soro Dagostino: How a dipute resolution system works.
[11:08] Elizabeth: Thank you.
[11:08] ElizabethElizabeth smiles
[11:09] Soro Dagostino: dispute*
[11:09] Worship Christ NOT People: despot? :P
[11:09] Agenda FarometAgenda Faromet laughs
[11:09] Elizabeth: Perhaps it would be better for us to give a presentation on something like that and let the sim determine what they wish to do with it, instead of trying to establish the whole thing for them.
[11:09] Lacuna Arado: education seems the key
[11:09] Elizabeth: Provide different alternatives to dispute resolution.
[11:10] Soro Dagostino: I have seen "despot" systems at work.
[11:10] Elizabeth: And let them find what they think will work for them with all the pros and cons offered.
[11:10] Soro Dagostino: That is the thought Liz.
[11:10] ElizabethElizabeth nods.
[11:10] Lacuna Arado: that's perphaps the most productive use of virtual worlds - knowledge and idea exchange
[11:11] Elizabeth: Perhaps we can discuss possibilities and see if there is something that the SLBA can do in that capacity?
[11:11] Lacuna Arado: give people information and hope they do the best with it
[11:11] Elizabeth: (Between thi smeeting and the next and then plan it from there).
[11:11] Elizabeth: this*
[11:11] Soro Dagostino: CDS is a bit more organized toward that goal -- than say the usual Mainland Sim.
[11:11] ElizabethElizabeth nods.
[11:12] Soro Dagostino: An open democracy.
[11:12] Worship Christ NOT People: I seldom go to mainland unless its unavoidable
[11:12] Elizabeth: Makes sense.
[11:12] Elizabeth: Does that sound reasonable Soro?
[11:13] Soro Dagostino: Yes,
[11:13] Elizabeth: If we discuss it between now and the next SLBA meeting and then try to come up with a way to do so?
[11:13] Soro Dagostino: I welcome the opportunity.
[11:13] Soro Dagostino: The issue is in our forums.
[11:13] ElizabethElizabeth nods.
[11:14] Soro Dagostino: Well described. Along with the venom and spite!
[11:14] ElizabethElizabeth laughs
[11:16] Soro Dagostino: Thanks for listening. Lets move on.
[11:16] Agenda Faromet: Thank you for bringing us the issue, Soro! Okay, we're way past closing time, so I move we close this and take further discussion to just hanging out.
[11:16] The Freak Magnet: Second
[11:16] The Freak Magnet: Since I do have to return to RL
[11:16] Agenda Faromet: So do I. Got to work out and go see Prometheus!
[11:16] Elizabeth: Nice!
[11:16] Elizabeth: Enjoy!
[11:17] Legal Writer: Great meeting!
[11:17] The Freak Magnet: Yes, informality was fun LOL
[11:17] Juris Amat: Me too. Gotta log off but this is a fascinating discussion and it makes me happy to be back. Congratulations on SL Law day! Im so glad that it went well and I regret missing it. TC!
[11:17] Legal Writer: Yes, congrats.
[11:17] Agenda Faromet: Indeed. Thank you all for coming, and I'll see you guys next month! Juris, it was great to see you again, and you as well, Legal.
[11:17] Elizabeth: Bye everyone. Have a great weekend!
[11:18] Juris Amat: Great to be here and looking forward to being around a lot more these days.
[11:18] Worship Christ NOT People: bye bye
[11:18] Legal Writer: So I will stick around for a few minutes for folks who want to learn about the ABA Section of Science & Technology Law.
[11:18] The Freak Magnet: ciao all, see you soon
[11:18] Agenda Faromet: Good!
[11:18] SLBA Seating: Single:1
[11:18] ElizabethElizabeth smiles
[11:18] Juris Amat: Bye!!!
[11:18] Elizabeth: I look forward to hearing about it.
[11:19] Legal Writer: The Section is the place where ABA lawyers (and many non-lawyers) explore the instersection between science and tech on one hand and law on the other.
[11:19] Legal Writer: It tries to be the go-to source of info about scitech law issues.
[11:20] Hoot N Any: Copywrite and data protection are causing major problems for researchers
[11:20] Legal Writer: Some years ago, I helped start a Virtual Worlds and Multiuser Online Games Committee.
[11:20] Legal Writer: Within the Section.
[11:20] Legal Writer: We are hoping that people will participate in the Section.
[11:20] Legal Writer: And, as mentioned, help become leaders of the Committee.
[11:21] Legal Writer: IP issues are one of the top issues we deal with.
[11:21] Elizabeth: Interesting.
[11:21] Legal Writer: So, the Commitee is going to be starting a new bar year soon, and I hope to get more critical mass of membership there.
[11:22] Legal Writer: We have also co-sponsored programs, and can publish articles, monographs, and books.
[11:22] Elizabeth: Alright.
[11:22] Legal Writer: Programs inlcude teleconferences and live programs.
[11:23] Legal Writer: Liz, one of the things that I have given programs on recently is the intersection among IT, online assets, computer investigations, and estate planning and administration.
[11:23] Legal Writer: We could have programming on these issues.
[11:24] Elizabeth: Ineresting.
[11:24] Legal Writer: We are also exploring webinar technologies and means of broadcasting programming on the web.
[11:24] Agenda Faromet: Oh, cool.
[11:24] Legal Writer: If we had a bazillion people in SL, I think we would want to do programs here.
[11:24] Elizabeth: I would love that!
[11:24] Legal Writer: But the vast majority of people we reach aren't on SL, so we need to use other technologies.
[11:25] Lyra Snowpaw: Folks my apologies I must return to RL atm. Good to see everyone
[11:25] Agenda Faromet: It's hard to get a bazillion people in SL when a sim can only support 40.
[11:25] Legal Writer: I am chair of the Long Range Planning Commitee of the Section, after having served as Chair of the Section last year.
[11:25] Elizabeth: There are so many ways though to do so!
[11:25] Worship Christ NOT People: some support 70+
[11:25] Worship Christ NOT People: :)
[11:25] Worship Christ NOT People: not that its helpful
[11:26] Agenda Faromet: Well, yes, but even those get laggy as hell.
[11:26] Legal Writer: So my goal is to find new (relatively inexpensive) ways to broadcast programs.
[11:26] Legal Writer: The user experience has to be good. :-))
[11:26] Worship Christ NOT People: virtual classroom through blackboard?
[11:26] Elizabeth: I know there are many ways to do so and have seen one in practice where over 400 people from around the globe were able to attend a meeting as that.
[11:27] Elizabeth: I think that would be really great to try to come up with.
[11:27] Legal Writer: Any suggestions would be appreciated!
[11:27] Legal Writer: I can be reached at firstname.lastname@example.org
[11:28] Legal Writer: So in any case, I will pass along names to Lucy Thomson, the chair elect. I have Agenda and Elizabeth.
[11:28] Agenda Faromet: Thank you, Legal!
[11:28] Elizabeth: Thank you!
[11:28] Legal Writer: You're welcome. I hope we can keep up the collaboration.
[11:29] ElizabethElizabeth smiles
[11:29] Legal Writer: Will sign off now, and will follow up with Liz and Agenda via email.
[11:29] Legal Writer: Bye
[11:29] Agenda Faromet: Bye, Legal. It was good seeing you.
[11:29] Elizabeth: Thank you Legal!
[11:29] Elizabeth: Have a great day!
[11:29] Agenda Faromet: I'm going to head off as well. It was good to see you all, and I'll talk to you all soon, I'm sure!
[11:30] Elizabeth: Good to see you too!
[11:30] Elizabeth: Bye for now!
[11:30] Elizabeth: Bye everyone.
[11:30] Hoot N Any: Have to take off , found meeting interesting
[11:30] Lacuna Arado: good chat here
[11:30] Lacuna Arado: thanks everyone
[11:32] Worship Christ NOT People: Go well Agenda :)