March 9, 2013 Executive board meeting transcript

[Geri Kahn]

[2013/03/03 11:07] Agenda Faromet: Personally, and this is just my stance on it, I'd rather see something useful for SL residents. It's good to have free CLE! But I think having us be a resource for SL residents makes us valuable to /them/.
[2013/03/03 11:08] Lyra Snowpaw: I agree totally Agenda
[2013/03/03 11:09] Lyra Snowpaw: I suppose we should link up with some groups on SL working with ppl with disabilities or families with children with disabilities
[2013/03/03 11:09] Agenda Faromet: Yeah. And there are other marketing avenues. Anyway, I need to run, but I'll see you next Saturday. Great presentation, Lyra, thank you so much.
[2013/03/03 11:10] Lyra Snowpaw: thanks folks for coming
[2013/03/03 11:10] Lyra Snowpaw: I appreciate you taking time to be here
[2013/03/03 11:10] Agenda Faromet: I appreciate you doing it! See you next week.
[09:00] Sam Courtois. Esq.: WB Tim
[09:00] Tim Faith: hello all
[09:00] Tim Faith: technical difficulties
[09:01] Agenda Faromet: You could, yes, but it's good to have people at ground level so the sim looks populated.
[09:01] Sam Courtois. Esq.: I understand, I was just curious.
[09:02] Agenda Faromet: But yes, if we end up needing to add more, we can add more on top levels.
[09:02] Lyra Snowpaw: sit 8 IS recommended!
[09:03] Agenda Faromet: I always use sit 14.
[09:03] Tim Faith: this is what happens when I work on motions for summary judgment
[09:03] Agenda Faromet: Ahahaha
[09:03] Agenda Faromet: Sorry about the sits -- I didn't make these chairs, so I can't change the sits around.
[09:04] Sam Courtois. Esq.: I like that one for the ladies, though Tim.
[09:04] Sam Courtois. Esq.: Agenda, they are fine.
[09:04] Tim Faith: i'm feeling a little dandy
[09:05] Sam Courtois. Esq.: Anyhow, Let me start today by saying thank you to all of your for your presentations.
[09:05] Lyra Snowpaw: do you need a Valium Tim as a result of your MSJ?
[09:05] Tim Faith: past the point of no return, but thanks
[09:05] Sam Courtois. Esq.: Agenda and Time you did great, and Lyra, your's was excellent and informative as well.
[09:06] Agenda Faromet: Lyra, my friends who showed up really enjoyed yours.
[09:06] Lyra Snowpaw: Thanks for bringing people
[09:07] Sam Courtois. Esq.: It is my convictions that if we make presentations such as these a staple part or our calendar, we will build a firm membership base.
[09:07] Agenda Faromet: I agree.
[09:07] Tim Faith: +1
[09:07] Lyra Snowpaw: I guess if we want to get "civilians" to legal presentations we would have to do something like Victimless Prosecution and Your Right to Practice BDSM
[09:07] Lyra Snowpaw: or some such thing
[09:08] Sam Courtois. Esq.: Is BDSM a right or a privilege?
[09:08] Agenda Faromet: I think a BDSM and the Law presentation would be very interesting, and would get a large audience. There's already a very active BDSM and the Law group in SL.
[09:08] Sam Courtois. Esq.: Really????
[09:08] Agenda Faromet: Yes.
[09:08] Sam Courtois. Esq.: I guess I never thought about that sort of thing having a legal aspect.
[09:09] Sam Courtois. Esq.: What is their focus?
[09:09] Lyra Snowpaw: yes I was talking to Torque and he knows the woman who was in the US Supreme Court cases about the BDSM film
[09:09] Sam Courtois. Esq.: I guess we need a speaker so that I can educate myself.
[09:10] Agenda Faromet: BDSM has a /major/ legal aspect. Look at NCSF's web page if you're interested, Sam. There are many court cases considering it: the limits of consent, for instance, and what constitutes assault, what constitutes domestic violence, etc. I could do a presentation on it.
[09:10] Lyra Snowpaw: I can get people here for that if we are serious about doing something like that
[09:10] Agenda Faromet: ....I couldn't do one until the fall, but I could do one.
[09:11] Tim Faith: shall we put you on for the September presentation, Agenda?
[09:11] Sam Courtois. Esq.: It souunds like a series of presentations.
[09:11] Lyra Snowpaw: yea it's my understanding that the "victimless prosecution" laws basically make BDSM illegal
[09:11] Lyra Snowpaw: without a written signed consent form for a film or modeling shoot
[09:12] Agenda Faromet: I might could make September, yes. I'm on two panels at the ABA Annual Meeting in August, but I think I could be prepared for something in September.
[09:12] Sam Courtois. Esq.: I'm thinking of perhaps four presentations -
[09:12] Sam Courtois. Esq.: Something that would actually draw crowds.
[09:12] Tim Faith: shall we call it BDSM & the Law ?
[09:12] Agenda Faromet: Sure.
[09:12] Sam Courtois. Esq.: Is that name taken?
[09:12] Agenda Faromet: ...Taken?
[09:13] Sam Courtois. Esq.: Someone mentioned that there is a BDSM & the law group?
[09:13] Agenda Faromet: Yes, but we're not making a group, we're doing a presentation.
[09:13] Lyra Snowpaw: there is a big group on that topic on the FetLife website
[09:13] Sam Courtois. Esq.: I didn't want to step on anyone's toes.
[09:13] Agenda Faromet: Yep, there is.
[09:13] Sam Courtois. Esq.: At least without a consent form.
[09:14] Tim Faith: I also talked with a colleague, Richard Granat, about doing a presentation on virtual law practice for us in August
[09:14] Agenda Faromet: You don't need consent to use a short title. You can't copyright short phrases.
[09:14] Sam Courtois. Esq.: No I meant consent to step on their toes.
[09:14] Lyra Snowpaw: lolz
[09:14] Agenda FarometAgenda Faromet gets it. Ha.
[09:14] Lyra Snowpaw: only if it's written and you are filming it
[09:15] Sam Courtois. Esq.: Gotcha!
[09:15] Sam Courtois. Esq.: OK
[09:15] Sam Courtois. Esq.: so #1 will be Agenda in September?
[09:15] Agenda Faromet: I don't know that we need four presentations...where are you getting the number four?
[09:16] Sam Courtois. Esq.: Lyra - did you have someone to follow uo with?
[09:16] Tim Faith: sam is ambitious
[09:16] Agenda Faromet: Yes.
[09:16] Sam Courtois. Esq.: Seemed like it might be an attractive subject.
[09:16] Tim Faith: hiya juris
[09:16] Lyra Snowpaw: ok are the other group members going to think we are all insane for suggesting this? Personally I think it's a good idea but all that representing the profession stuff. . .
[09:16] Sam Courtois. Esq.: Hi Juis
[09:16] Sam Courtois. Esq.: Juris.
[09:16] Sam Courtois. Esq.: Nice to see you!
[09:16] Juris Amat: Hi everyone
[09:17] Lyra Snowpaw: Hi Juris
[09:17] Juris Amat: Sorry to interrupt
[09:17] Sam Courtois. Esq.: You are just in time, we were talking about BDSM.
[09:17] Tim Faith: we were just talking about BDSM and the law
[09:17] Tim Faith: i shake my head
[09:17] Sam Courtois. Esq.: What are your thoughts on the suibject?
[09:17] Agenda Faromet: It would be an attractive subject, but we'll just end up repeating one another. Lyra, this /is/ part of the profession. There are people who do this. It isn't illegal or unethical, and they should get to know what the law is just like anyone else, right?
[09:17] Agenda Faromet: Hi, Juris!
[09:18] Juris Amat: bdsm ...Im clueless
[09:18] Tim Faith: i agree with Agenda
[09:18] Lyra Snowpaw: yes I agree totally
[09:18] Tim Faith: I also agree with Juris
[09:18] Juris Amat: lol
[09:18] Agenda Faromet: I mean, it isn't mainstream, but the law has never only represented the mainstream.
[09:19] Lyra Snowpaw: no and it's a legal area that is morphing quickly these days
[09:19] Sam Courtois. Esq.: My point is that there apparently is a large amount of interest in the subject in SL.
[09:19] Sam Courtois. Esq.: Accordingly, we might get good crowds if wer are talking about it.
[09:20] Lyra Snowpaw: and I have an honest question whether victimless prosection doesn't result in de facto gender discrimination against
[09:20] Lyra Snowpaw: *against men
[09:20] Sam Courtois. Esq.: I think I would like to hear from someone who is conversant with the subject tell us what it is all about?
[09:20] Tim Faith: +1
[09:20] Lyra Snowpaw: I know some people and I am sure Agenda does too
[09:21] Agenda Faromet: Right. And yes, Sam. But I think rather than doing four presentations on BDSM and the Law, which would get repetitive, we could do a series on sex and the law. So...BDSM, and virtual escort services and prostitution laws, and pornography and the law, and so on.
[09:21] Sam Courtois. Esq.: My curiousity is surpassed only by my ignorance.
[09:21] Lyra Snowpaw: Who knows maybe we can even get that film-maker who took her case to the USSC
[09:21] Sam Courtois. Esq.: That makes sense.
[09:21] Agenda Faromet: I used to work at a law firm that worked very heavily in this space.
[09:21] Sam Courtois. Esq.: Sex sells.
[09:21] Agenda Faromet: Everything sells.
[09:22] Sam Courtois. Esq.: It wasn't very long ago, that sex was pretty well int he shadows, at least overt sex.
[09:23] Juris Amat: wow...um maybe a guest speaker series would be the most appropriate way to handle this type of presentation
[09:23] Lyra Snowpaw: Now that I think of it though-most people doing this on SL are NOT doing it in RL
[09:23] Sam Courtois. Esq.: BDSM etc may have existed, but not as openly as it seems to be today.
[09:23] Sam Courtois. Esq.: Hi Geri!
[09:23] Lyra Snowpaw: and SL is the wild west-you can do practically anything here without ramifications
[09:23] Tim Faith: hi geri
[09:23] Sam Courtois. Esq.: Welcome!
[09:23] Lyra Snowpaw: so maybe that would limit interest
[09:23] Juris Amat: you what i find interesting these days are the recent changes in online gambling laws
[09:24] Geri Kahn: hi everyone
[09:24] Juris Amat: yes im trying to chage the subject...is that ok?
[09:24] Sam Courtois. Esq.: Absolutely.
[09:24] Juris Amat: *change
[09:24] Sam Courtois. Esq.: Let's move from sex to gambling.
[09:24] Geri Kahn: Tim are you logging this meeting?
[09:24] Agenda Faromet: Lyra -- sure, most people in SL are living a fantasy life. But they're still interested, I'm sure, and we can and should target to their interests. I also think Juris has a great point -- the recent changes in online gambling laws are /fascinating/, especially with the Antigua situation.
[09:25] Tim Faith: i can
[09:25] Sam Courtois. Esq.: Another swubject about whihc I am incredibly naive.
[09:25] Juris Amat: zynga is anticipating that as soon as laws hit the books they will make a shift from virtual to real life currency
[09:25] Juris Amat: isnt antigua a riot???
[09:25] Juris Amat: i couldnt believe when i read it!
[09:25] Agenda Faromet: I love it!
[09:25] Tim Faith: I have this as our presentation schedule this year: April, 2013 - Provisional Waivers in Immigration

May 4, 2013, 10am SLT - Real Estate in RL & SL

June, 2013 - Online Resolution of IPR Disputes

August, 2013 - Virtual Law Practice

September, 2013 - BDSM & the Law
[09:25] Agenda Faromet: That's what you get for tying copyright laws to treaties.
[09:26] Lyra Snowpaw: oh immigration good topic!
[09:26] Geri Kahn: I'd like to change the topic of my talk to just general immigration law
[09:26] Sam Courtois. Esq.: Shall we move upstairs do that Geri can have a place to sit?
[09:27] Tim Faith: geri- no problem
[09:27] Juris Amat: certainly..
[09:27] Agenda Faromet: We might also look at fraud and catfishing.
[09:27] Juris Amat: Hi Geri!
[09:27] Geri Kahn: Hi juris
[09:28] Agenda Faromet: Are you familiar with catfishing?
[09:28] Sam Courtois. Esq.: Agenda, you are so resourceful.
[09:29] Sam Courtois. Esq.: SueMoon comes from Louisiana, I think.
[09:29] Juris Amat: touche
[09:29] Geri Kahn: Can't find a comfortable position
[09:29] Agenda Faromet: No, not catfish like the fish. Catfish like the movie.
[09:29] Sam Courtois. Esq.: Oh -
[09:29] Agenda Faromet: And the TV show.
[09:29] Sam Courtois. Esq.: Again, you are over my head.
[09:30] Lyra Snowpaw: oh is this another kind of informed consent area Agenda?
[09:30] Lyra Snowpaw: misrepresenting yourself online sort of thing?
[09:30] Lyra Snowpaw: or am I missing the point?
[09:30] Agenda Faromet: Catfish refers to a movie, and now a TV show, that studies the phenomenon of people entering relationships online with people who are not what they pretend to be. Yes, exactly, Lyra. Online misrepresentation, fraud, and the consequences thereof.
[09:31] Lyra Snowpaw: that is an excellent topic
[09:31] Sam Courtois. Esq.Sam Courtois. Esq. blushes
[09:31] Sam Courtois. Esq.: First time I have heard of that.
[09:31] Sam Courtois. Esq.: Is my grey hari turning blond by any chance?
[09:31] Sam Courtois. Esq.: hair*
[09:32] Agenda Faromet: There was an article in the New York Times recently about Paul Frampton, a brilliant physicist and noted UNC professor who met a gorgeous Brazilian bikini model online, flew to South America to meet her, and ended up convicted of drug smuggling.
[09:32] Lyra Snowpaw: kind of goes back to the sex topic tho-whether its rape if there is misrepresentation/no informed consent
[09:32] Geri Kahn: Is all this stuff included in the transcript posted online?
[09:32] Geri KahnGeri Kahn smiles
[09:32] Tim Faith: we'll get some interest one way or another!
[09:33] Sam Courtois. Esq.: I hope so, the next Executive committee myght be a big crowd all by itself.
[09:34] Sam Courtois. Esq.: So, is it agreed that we will fill the coffere\s by talking about sex all fall and winter?
[09:34] Tim Faith: anyone know a speaker for "catfishing?"
[09:34] Agenda Faromet: Right, but with the Frampton situation, it's not just sexual misrepresentation, it's people misrepresenting in many ways. Here in SL, we've had, for instance, situations of people claiming injuries or personal tragedies in order to solicit fundraising or other assistance, and then the community who helped later learning that the injury/tragedy was a lie.
[09:34] Sam Courtois. Esq.: From a legal perspective, of course?
[09:35] Tim Faith: or a "how to" though we might be conspiring to commit a crime with that
[09:35] Juris Amat: i went to antioch college undergrad...so im familiar with the concept of consent via our sex offense policy and the dating contract
[09:35] Juris Amat: although it was a p
[09:35] Juris Amat: sorry slip of the keys
[09:36] Juris Amat: it is a private university and able to enforce violations through expulsion...im not sure how such contracts would be enforceable in rl
[09:36] Sam Courtois. Esq.: Well, if we venture into all the different facets of fraud and misrepresentation, that will take up all of 2014 as well.
[09:37] Sam Courtois. Esq.: We may have hit on a gold mine!
[09:37] Agenda Faromet: Right, which is why I'm suggesting a presentation that focuses solely on the catfish concept and fraud / misrepresentation associated with that.
[09:37] Juris Amat: these types of fraud wouldnt really be fraud in fact if its occurring in the game right?t
[09:37] Sam Courtois. Esq.: Exactly, but I also like the idea that Juris alludes to.
[09:37] Agenda Faromet: Why not, Juris?
[09:38] Juris Amat: an avatar is just that...a virtual representation
[09:38] Sam Courtois. Esq.: Juris - does Antioch have a presence on SL?
[09:38] Agenda Faromet: So? Fraud still exists if it occurs via mail or via wire.
[09:38] Juris Amat: not sure..we just reopened our presence in rl.
[09:38] Lyra Snowpaw: actually I would say at least a fraud
[09:38] Juris Amat: lol
[09:39] Sam Courtois. Esq.: I would think that dating contracts would be very interesting.
[09:40] Sam Courtois. Esq.: Let's regroup for a minute.
[09:40] Sam Courtois. Esq.: Agenda, you are on for September?
[09:40] Agenda Faromet: I am.
[09:40] Sam Courtois. Esq.: Shall there be a follow-up?
[09:41] Sam Courtois. Esq.: If so what topic and who shall be the presenter?
[09:41] Sam Courtois. Esq.: Lyra, do you have thoughts?
[09:41] Lyra Snowpaw: ouf ok, but I need to think on it a bit to formulate some ideas on where to go with that
[09:41] Sam Courtois. Esq.: OK
[09:42] Lyra Snowpaw: I ended up rewriting my healthcare presentation 3 times!
[09:42] Lyra Snowpaw: lolz
[09:42] Sam Courtois. Esq.: Juris, anything from you?
[09:42] Juris Amat: well...
[09:43] Sam Courtois. Esq.: Hello Marybeth
[09:43] Juris Amat: i guess that i could probably throw something together on the theme of social contracts..like the one i mentioned
[09:44] Mary Beth Cooperstone: Hi Sam
[09:44] Juris Amat: but it seems it would simply be a topic covered by Agenda in her presentation
[09:44] Sam Courtois. Esq.: It doesn't ahve to be you as the presenter, if you know of someone you think you could recruit.
[09:44] Sam Courtois. Esq.: OK
[09:44] Sam Courtois. Esq.: perhaps we don't need a follow-up.
[09:44] Sam Courtois. Esq.: Geri, thoughts?
[09:44] Geri Kahn: no, not really.
[09:45] Sam Courtois. Esq.: Tim, you are being conspicuous by your silence.
[09:45] Mary Beth Cooperstone: Is this the SL Bar assoc.
[09:45] Mary Beth Cooperstone: ?
[09:45] Juris Amat: lol
[09:45] Sam Courtois. Esq.: Tes Marybeth
[09:45] Geri Kahn: Yes!
[09:45] Geri Kahn: Welcome
[09:45] Sam Courtois. Esq.: Yes.
[09:45] Juris Amat: i was wondering the same
[09:45] Geri KahnGeri Kahn grins
[09:45] Sam Courtois. Esq.: You are very welcome .
[09:45] Mary Beth Cooperstone: How do I get there?
[09:45] Tim Faith: i'm all good
[09:45] Geri Kahn: up the stairs
[09:46] Juris Amat: when i walked in and sat down in the middle of a convo on something called... bsdm
[09:46] Agenda Faromet: Hi, Mary Bety!
[09:46] Tim Faith: entrance is on the other side of the building, Mary Beth
[09:46] Agenda Faromet: Beth. I swear I can type. Hang on, I'll help her!
[09:46] Mary Beth Cooperstone: TP?
[09:46] Sam Courtois. Esq.: Thanks Agenda.
[09:46] Geri Kahn: I think someone is coming to help you
[09:47] Sam Courtois. Esq.: Actually, the topic was speakers.
[09:47] Sam Courtois. Esq.: and thre are no constraints on your weighing in with a different theme.
[09:47] Tim Faith: i have no suggestions for bdsm/social contracts/catfishing, as to speakers
[09:47] Juris Amat: grins
[09:47] Mary Beth Cooperstone: Sorry
[09:48] Sam Courtois. Esq.: We are delighted that you could join us MaryBeth!
[09:48] Lyra Snowpaw: well perhaps we are getting ahead of ourselves-we haven't heard the rest of the group weigh in on all these presentation ideas
[09:48] Sam Courtois. Esq.: Well said.
[09:48] Agenda Faromet: I'm telling you, you guys missed the Red Jacket Black Bottoms memo.
[09:48] Juris Amat: apparently..
[09:49] Juris Amat: damn my unpreparedness
[09:49] Tim Faith: this is why i always wear black, as it matches everything
[09:49] Geri Kahn: Welcome Mary Beth, officially.
[09:49] Agenda Faromet: It does indeed, Mr. Lincoln.
[09:50] Tim Faith: lol
[09:50] Sam Courtois. Esq.: I like the idea of Association uniforms!
[09:50] Sam Courtois. Esq.: Next time!
[09:50] Juris Amat: or colors at least but there seems to already be consensus around red and black
[09:51] Geri KahnGeri Kahn laughs
[09:51] Sam Courtois. Esq.: Perhaps ladies have the red tops and men have the black tops
[09:51] Juris Amat: smiles
[09:51] Geri Kahn: and a Star Trek logo
[09:51] Agenda Faromet: Oh, you know mine will change the next time you see me, though.
[09:51] Lyra Snowpaw: oh then I missed that memo
[09:52] Sam Courtois. Esq.: Back to October.
[09:52] Juris Amat: its nice that there are so many presentations planned though
[09:52] Sam Courtois. Esq.: What shall we talk about in October?
[09:52] Agenda Faromet: Okay. SO. Recapping. BDSM and the Law in September. What's next?
[09:53] Sam Courtois. Esq.: To the extent that I have my way, we will have a presentation every month.
[09:53] Juris Amat: id love to do something on online gambling
[09:53] Lyra Snowpaw: great idea
[09:53] Agenda Faromet: Because I really do think that we don't need four presentations on BDSM. We're just going to repeat one another. But I think there's a /lot/ to talk about on the subject of virtual sexuality -- or just expand to to Virtual Vice!
[09:53] Sam Courtois. Esq.: October then?
[09:53] Tim Faith: great!
[09:54] Tim Faith: i always bet on red
[09:54] Agenda Faromet: So you get sex, gambling, maybe even a presentation on griefing!
[09:54] Juris Amat: i read recently that if the law passes in california zynga will make a switch from virtual to actual currency in their games
[09:54] Sam Courtois. Esq.: Juris?
[09:54] Juris Amat: i wonder if sl would as well and what the implications might be
[09:54] Sam Courtois. Esq.: Tim - put Juris down for October.
[09:55] Juris Amat: i remember back in the day...when i was a newbie banks were still present in world
[09:55] Agenda Faromet: That's a good question. You know SL has partnered with Amazon, right?
[09:55] Lyra Snowpaw: I think you just got volunteerd Juris : )
[09:55] Agenda Faromet: Heh, I remember the banks.
[09:55] Lyra Snowpaw: *volunteered
[09:55] Juris Amat: gladly
[09:55] Sam Courtois. Esq.: Partnered? How so, Agenda?
[09:56] Sam Courtois. Esq.: The virtual market on Amazon?
[09:56] Juris Amat: i didnt know but it sounds fascinating...enlighten us
[09:57] Sam Courtois. Esq.: Enough - it is almost time for the main meeting.
[09:57] Tim Faith: http://aws.amazon.com/solutions/case-studies/linden-lab/
[09:57] Sam Courtois. Esq.: Marybeth, can you give a two minute biography about yourself?
[09:57] Geri Kahn: and then maybe we should introduce ourselves as well
[09:57] Sam Courtois. Esq.: We are so happy you could be here today.
[09:58] Sam Courtois. Esq.: Good thought Geri.
[09:58] Sam Courtois. Esq.: You start.
[09:58] Lyra Snowpaw: ok is anyone doing catfishing? I can give it a shot if there are no other takers_I can't promise at this point tho
[09:58] Sam Courtois. Esq.: Hold that thought Lyra.
[09:58] Geri Kahn: Well, Mary Beth can start :)
[09:58] Sam Courtois. Esq.: Oh, let her finish.
[09:59] Mary Beth Cooperstone: Attorney specializing in state tax law.. Often drafting sales and business tax law for states, sometime litigating
[09:59] Sam Courtois. Esq.: Give her a chance to know who she is talking ot.
[09:59] Agenda Faromet: Yes -- at the beginning of the year, Linden Lab started offering special bundled packages for sale on Amazon (purchase items on Amazon, and they'd be available in-game). It was actually a massive debacle, because LL ended up offering L$1000 for free for a limited time...so people could go to Amazon, get L$1000, and then sell their L$1000 for real money. It was a real mess.
[09:59] Geri Kahn: Hi Faye, welcome
[09:59] Faye Blackheart: Hi, thanks
[09:59] Agenda Faromet: Someday, I will learn not to type large blocks.
[09:59] Sam Courtois. Esq.: Grettings Faye!
[09:59] Sam Courtois. Esq.: Welocme.
[10:00] Geri Kahn: Hi Sue
[10:00] Suemoon Magic: Hello
[10:00] Agenda Faromet: Since the meeting has now started, should we go in the proper conference room so people can sit?
[10:00] Sam Courtois. Esq.: Yes.
[10:00] Tim Faith: very well
[10:00] Juris Amat: agreed
[10:00] Geri Kahn: Mary Beth, please follow everyone else